tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post6814451631625242434..comments2024-03-14T09:50:44.315+00:00Comments on Psychological comments: Will Turks show Syrians the way in Germany?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09320614837348759094noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-28011279687038882252016-10-03T17:06:50.658+01:002016-10-03T17:06:50.658+01:00Turks have been a disaster for Germany. Iranians t...Turks have been a disaster for Germany. Iranians typically do well academically and economically though.<br /><br />What is surprising is the Italian figure. Why do they perform so badly? If it's because they're from the south, then why do Italian-Americans do well for themselves? 84% of Italian-Americans have roots in southern Italy and Sicily, yet they do fine for themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-2075762233048583722016-10-01T12:31:16.483+01:002016-10-01T12:31:16.483+01:00Your comment, anon, makes me wonder whether "...Your comment, anon, makes me wonder whether "schooling doesn't matter" results are heavily biased by range restriction.deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-36662205416571784702016-09-29T14:31:54.865+01:002016-09-29T14:31:54.865+01:00"Would the German government have been so kee..."Would the German government have been so keen to let in a million Syrians had they read the PISA results of second generation Turks? I would like to think that better understanding of these results might have had an impact."<br /><br /><br /><br />I sometimes wonder whether you can really presume all the good faith, even heroism, you display your presumption of in people. I tend to think it's only urbanity, though.<br />We are "governed" by fellows who'd swap the destiny of their grandchildren (when they have any) with holding their chairs for one more year, or a prize like the Coudenhove-Kalergi's (take some informations on the Count, and consider Van Rompuy and Merkel have been awarded the honour of the Foundation's prize).<br /><br />----------------------<br />"Needful to say, the author makes no reference to intelligence, or racial differences in intelligence. There are several references to the need for increased “support”. This has always been given, but more is always demanded."<br /><br />The absolute denial of the state of things in this regard drives you to discount the importance of teaching and teacher quality for all people.<br />I stand on the border between tribe 4 (Out Ahead) and tribe 5 (Yours to Lose) and can tell you that studying in "schools" designed for a 90 mean IQ people, with their 100-110 IQ "teachers" and the dumbed-down "books" they used — and on top of that the unavoidable general laziness in such environments — damaged my learning considerably.<br /><br />I think your lying way higher in the tribe ranking may obfuscate your view of this matter.<br />We in Tribe #4, even at the very high end of it, have great need for teachers, books, lessons, suiting our degree of cognitive aptness.<br /><br />Whenever I read you discounting the importance of schooling quality I go through recollection of all the harm I received from schooling that was really unsuited for me.<br />And how, without the Internet, there would be very little chance for anybody in Tribe #4 — but even for some in low-to-middle Tribe #5, to escape analphabetism.<br /><br />Professor, you have too little experience of median IQ 90 environments, I hypothesize.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-71559272630366291202016-09-29T14:02:41.984+01:002016-09-29T14:02:41.984+01:00I join Prof. Thompson in thanking you for providin...I join Prof. Thompson in thanking you for providing this information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-2910936640443648012016-09-29T14:01:13.395+01:002016-09-29T14:01:13.395+01:00The Italy-Poland gap is accounted for by Italian e...The Italy-Poland gap is accounted for by Italian emigrants to Germany being exclusively low-skilled Southerners (consider average South Italy IQ is 90).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-18412385827965338872016-09-27T16:19:01.748+01:002016-09-27T16:19:01.748+01:00Iq and other school-esque stuff tends to analyse t...Iq and other school-esque stuff tends to analyse the combination between individual cultural accumulation (yes, culture is also the knowledge [very good, avg or stupid] it produce) or [part of] the phenotypical intelligence with genotypical intelligence, of course i'm talking about culturalized cognitive tests.<br /><br />More important than analyse people in comparative value we also should analyse ''them'' (and us) based on absolute/individually qualitative value and undoubtedly ''we'' will need to appeal to the ideals to the behavior and to the more purely cognitive ''things''.<br /><br />or not.Santocultonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-29502083369179692022016-09-27T13:58:46.788+01:002016-09-27T13:58:46.788+01:00I am most grateful for your informed content. A pl...I am most grateful for your informed content. A pleasure to have knowledgeable readers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09320614837348759094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-83463290117857031152016-09-27T09:56:59.760+01:002016-09-27T09:56:59.760+01:00> They began immigrating to Germany in October
...> They began immigrating to Germany in October<br />> 1961, by invitation, to join the labour force<br /><br />Turkey applied to be included in the German "Gastarbeiter" programme in the 1950ies, which was rejected by the Ministry of Economy after extensive studies predicted with spooky precision the negative outcome some decades later. As Turkey was an important ally in the cold war, having nukes and surveillance equipment stationed at the eastern border (the nukes that got traded against Russian nukes in Cuba later) the US intervened on its behalf. The application got transferred to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the minister given the order to accept it.<br /><br />> providing workers for the German economic miracle<br />A recurrent myth put forward by the German welfare industry and Turkish functionaries. The treaty was signed in 1961 but most Turks arrived in the late 60ies when the Wirtschaftswunder was pretty much over. In 1973 the programme was stopped by Social Democrat Willy Brandt because it became glaringly clear that these low-skilled workers weren't needed.<br /><br />Chancellor Helmut Schmidt in 2009:<br />- "Im Grunde genommen ging es ihm [dem damaligen Wirtschaftsminister Ludwig Erhard] darum, durch Anwerbung ausländischer Arbeitskräfte das Lohnniveau niedrig zu halten. Mir wäre stattdessen lieber gewesen, die deutschen Löhne wären gestiegen."<br /><br />"Basically he [the then Minister of Economy Ludwig Erhard] wanted to keep wages down by importing foreign labour. I would have preferred for the German wages to rise."M. Möhlinghttp://bluetenlese.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-11288179583949497672016-09-27T03:56:42.665+01:002016-09-27T03:56:42.665+01:00http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/what-do-imm...http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/what-do-immigrant-students-tell-us-about-the-quality-of-education-systems_5k3wb8k80n7k-en<br /><br />dux.ieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-87482730822615836962016-09-27T03:44:06.080+01:002016-09-27T03:44:06.080+01:00I dont have the url at the moment. The PISA docume...I dont have the url at the moment. The PISA document no. 33 "What do immigrant students tell us about the quality of education systems?" has a chart on the scores of Turkish immigrant students in various European countries. Germany already got relatively reasonably Turkish students (~420) compared to those for Austria (~380). The relatively better Turkish students in Netherlands (~440) were not that far behind the best from the former Yugoslavia(~455).<br /><br />dux.ieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-36392179895470026092016-09-26T10:40:44.122+01:002016-09-26T10:40:44.122+01:00I agree that one should look at the sector of each...I agree that one should look at the sector of each population drawn into working abroad, but if you look at the national IQ data the scholastic results seem a reasonable fit. If you look at the Rindermann data, to our surprise the average IQ figure is a pretty good fit, despite my thinking that it ought to depend on which sector of the distribution emigrated abroad.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09320614837348759094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-15629086006742236842016-09-26T08:44:00.489+01:002016-09-26T08:44:00.489+01:00Germans invited labour force from Turkey in 1961 f...Germans invited labour force from Turkey in 1961 for the less skilled occupations. Recruited people were from the rural part of Turkey, so they maybe represented not the brightest part of the turkish population. I think the integration failure of this turkish subpopulation in Germany caused by this fact.<br />And of course, only this selected turkish population is equal to the syrian median cognitive skills, the avereage IQ of turks must be much higher than this.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4624586630299165335.post-90800274992136610292016-09-25T16:02:26.244+01:002016-09-25T16:02:26.244+01:00People seems live fluctuating out of the ground du...People seems live fluctuating out of the ground during their lives without to know what they are really doing. The idea that education influence definitively the genotypical cognitive skills is at least dull. <br /><br />People all the time do what they want, included students.<br /><br />The common gap between teachers (~avg iq 110) and students (~avg iq 100, in the ''developed'' country) tends to be highly influent in the ''illusion of the education decisive--influence''.<br /><br />the common illusion among ''smart[er]'' that they can ''teach'' what they want to the other people and this people can become like them, ''smart[er]''.<br /><br />There is certainly some influence of the teacher but will be<br /><br />less than most people imagine<br /><br />individually assimetric (some people, specially some types of smart may be more uniquely influenced ''that teacher made me like the subject she/he taught)<br /><br />If people were more self-reflective they would less prone to trust in vague abstract assumptions just like ''education is highly influent to the [genotypical] intelligence''Santocultonoreply@blogger.com